Xanthus had a bare wood repaint about 15 years ago and I felt just needed tidying up at this year's lift out, Not so. Some paint fell off at the lift and a subsequent full burn off revealed modest problems which,if left, would have been very bad next year
The lesson? You do not kow what is happening under the paint so occasionally bite the bullet and go back to bare wood
Things I now know
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JohnSK
- Sub-Lieutenant
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- Location: United Kingdom
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PerHansson
- Commander
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<b>Fifteen years of boat paint – what better advert is there for the paint used!?</b>
Do you know what paint was used 15 years ago? Why has it failed now? Has anyone come up with the ultimate paint to use on Faireys?!
As far as I can tell the topic of paint to use on hot molded Agba veneer and super structure has not been aired recently. There is a lot of mention of different epoxy solutions and their benefits, but does any member have an opinion on the ultimate combination/paint/treatment of ‘Fairey wood’ or is it always a compromise between ease of maintenance/looks/gloss and what’s best to preserve the wood and the boats for the future?!
The Fairey boat wood structure and joints will always move differently to any paint used, one part, two part and certainly, epoxy. What would Members recommend and use considering this fact?
Thank you for your anticipated feed-back.
Per
Ps. My Swordsman has Awl Grip (two part paint system) on the dry hull sides and top sides, looks very glossy and plastic but God knows what lurks beneath the paint!
Do you know what paint was used 15 years ago? Why has it failed now? Has anyone come up with the ultimate paint to use on Faireys?!
As far as I can tell the topic of paint to use on hot molded Agba veneer and super structure has not been aired recently. There is a lot of mention of different epoxy solutions and their benefits, but does any member have an opinion on the ultimate combination/paint/treatment of ‘Fairey wood’ or is it always a compromise between ease of maintenance/looks/gloss and what’s best to preserve the wood and the boats for the future?!
The Fairey boat wood structure and joints will always move differently to any paint used, one part, two part and certainly, epoxy. What would Members recommend and use considering this fact?
Thank you for your anticipated feed-back.
Per
Ps. My Swordsman has Awl Grip (two part paint system) on the dry hull sides and top sides, looks very glossy and plastic but God knows what lurks beneath the paint!
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Ben
- Admiral
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John,
Xanthus looked very good from the train this evening. Splendid!
Per,
Its an interesting point, well at least to me it is more interesting that the rubbish on television!
My Huntress had been epoxy coated and two pack painted, it had lasted 7 years and was in good shape.
Playtime's Cabin roof and deck have been epoxied and painted for 8 years and were in very good shape, I'm painting them now to cover up some dirty marks.
The Awlgrip system is epoxy primer and polyurethane 2 pack paint.
I looked into it and concluded that all of the epoxy products and two pack paints were much of a muchness with the the biggest differentiator being cost.
It is clear to me that a epoxy base and 2 pack polyurethane paint job lasts much longer than conventional paints such as alkyd enamel and I beleive protects the wood more effectively. With that in mind I have set about all the painted areas on the outside of Playtime being epoxied.
I also think its worth noting that the hot moulded construction and plywood superstructure are inherently suitable for this kind of treatment, whereas a traditional plank on frame boat is not so well suited.
To my mind a shiny finish is not as important as protecting the wood. The question of longevity is not about how long it looks good, but how long it protects the wood.
I think there is benefit to be gained from thinking carefully about the seams and borders and keeping the weather out of them, for example, on Playtime I now have the quadrant that runs along the cabinside and deck epoxied into place with the blue on the cabin side extending down over the quadrant to the deck.
Ben
Xanthus looked very good from the train this evening. Splendid!
Per,
Its an interesting point, well at least to me it is more interesting that the rubbish on television!
My Huntress had been epoxy coated and two pack painted, it had lasted 7 years and was in good shape.
Playtime's Cabin roof and deck have been epoxied and painted for 8 years and were in very good shape, I'm painting them now to cover up some dirty marks.
The Awlgrip system is epoxy primer and polyurethane 2 pack paint.
I looked into it and concluded that all of the epoxy products and two pack paints were much of a muchness with the the biggest differentiator being cost.
It is clear to me that a epoxy base and 2 pack polyurethane paint job lasts much longer than conventional paints such as alkyd enamel and I beleive protects the wood more effectively. With that in mind I have set about all the painted areas on the outside of Playtime being epoxied.
I also think its worth noting that the hot moulded construction and plywood superstructure are inherently suitable for this kind of treatment, whereas a traditional plank on frame boat is not so well suited.
To my mind a shiny finish is not as important as protecting the wood. The question of longevity is not about how long it looks good, but how long it protects the wood.
I think there is benefit to be gained from thinking carefully about the seams and borders and keeping the weather out of them, for example, on Playtime I now have the quadrant that runs along the cabinside and deck epoxied into place with the blue on the cabin side extending down over the quadrant to the deck.
Ben
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Folly Reach
- Captain
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Ben is spot on, keeping the water out is the name of the game. When I refitted Venatrix in 2005/6 I did away with the poor condition teak decks and completely covered the superstructure with epoxy as follows.
Removed rubbing strakes, laid marine ply over the worn teak bedded down in a liberal base of West Epoxy. The edge of the deck was routed with a nice bevel and then West Epoxy with cloth was applied from behind the rubbing strakes,over the deck and up the cabin sides and over the roof. Now there is not even a need for the triangular bead between the deck and cabin sides. The rubbing strakes were then replaced with new teak again bedded in West Epoxy.
The paintwork was redone with International Toplac (not keen on two pack paints)6 years on the cabin sides have not been painted although they will be done next winter (international reckon on 4 years for toplac)
The hull sides were stripped at same time, some repairs effected and then coated with Eposeal (SP Expoy Solvent based and very thin in consistancy) This was then painted in Toplac and has lasted 5 years and I have just repainted this year. When sanding down the surface has proved to be very durable and easy to sand prior to undercoat,50:50 and finally a coat of Toplac.
I hope this is helpful.
Regards
Ian
Removed rubbing strakes, laid marine ply over the worn teak bedded down in a liberal base of West Epoxy. The edge of the deck was routed with a nice bevel and then West Epoxy with cloth was applied from behind the rubbing strakes,over the deck and up the cabin sides and over the roof. Now there is not even a need for the triangular bead between the deck and cabin sides. The rubbing strakes were then replaced with new teak again bedded in West Epoxy.
The paintwork was redone with International Toplac (not keen on two pack paints)6 years on the cabin sides have not been painted although they will be done next winter (international reckon on 4 years for toplac)
The hull sides were stripped at same time, some repairs effected and then coated with Eposeal (SP Expoy Solvent based and very thin in consistancy) This was then painted in Toplac and has lasted 5 years and I have just repainted this year. When sanding down the surface has proved to be very durable and easy to sand prior to undercoat,50:50 and finally a coat of Toplac.
I hope this is helpful.
Regards
Ian
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Scott Pett
- Rear Admiral
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i think a big problem with the deck/cabin joint is that the cabin woodwork appears to have been fitted <i>after</i> the deck was finished. The cabin sides fitted inside the carlin allows the rain-water down the joint. I've replaced one major part of cabin side and a large area of sub-deck plywood.
A slightly better method (from a weather-tightness point of view at least) would be to raise the carlin above the deck height and fit the cabin on the outside of the raised carlin. You'd lose 5/8" of side deck each side.
Not wishing to glass the entire boat, (glassing the deck was bad enough) and not wishing to rebuild the cabin top, I've decided to add 2" glass tape to the deck to cabin joint in a no-doubt vain attempt to keep the water out. Hopefully this will help round the cabin fronts where the water sits in the corners.
While I"m at it, I will tape the cabin side joints which may help stop them opening up and cracking the paint.
Time will tell.
Cheers,
Scott
A slightly better method (from a weather-tightness point of view at least) would be to raise the carlin above the deck height and fit the cabin on the outside of the raised carlin. You'd lose 5/8" of side deck each side.
Not wishing to glass the entire boat, (glassing the deck was bad enough) and not wishing to rebuild the cabin top, I've decided to add 2" glass tape to the deck to cabin joint in a no-doubt vain attempt to keep the water out. Hopefully this will help round the cabin fronts where the water sits in the corners.
While I"m at it, I will tape the cabin side joints which may help stop them opening up and cracking the paint.
Time will tell.
Cheers,
Scott
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JohnSK
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Not sure what paint was used. It was conventional. I talked to Martin, former Fairey apprentice, at Foulkes yard who tells me the original primer was lead based so forget any ideas of a repeat!!
Interesting to read the observations on the problems of water on the deck and superstructure since I have approached this rather differently. Being realistic, the boat spends most of its life sitting unused on the mooring. With this in mind I have had made an overall cover which totally covers to rubbing strake level. It is a bind to remove and refit but it does keep the boat clean and dry underneath and saves the decks from going green after a period of non use. The cost of such a cover is a fraction of the price of a repaint - worth a thought
Interesting to read the observations on the problems of water on the deck and superstructure since I have approached this rather differently. Being realistic, the boat spends most of its life sitting unused on the mooring. With this in mind I have had made an overall cover which totally covers to rubbing strake level. It is a bind to remove and refit but it does keep the boat clean and dry underneath and saves the decks from going green after a period of non use. The cost of such a cover is a fraction of the price of a repaint - worth a thought
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PerHansson
- Commander
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Thank you Ben, Ian, Scott and John for your observations and feedback which has been very useful in my deliberations on what to do as not only is the Awlgrip(approximately 8 years old now) bubbling in more places than I am happy with but also cracking in the joints on the top structure which probably no system can cope with long term due to the stresses put on them.
(Considering she is in the water 12 months of the year and has been for at least the last seven years, the Awlgrip has perhaps lasted as well as can be expected. I hate to think of the cost of having it redone and the time she needs to dry out.)
Apart from these cracks being unsightly, which I can live with, the problem is to keep out the fresh water from entering. I hope my regular spraying of clean salt water will stop any trapped fresh water from rotting the wood where there has been ingress (at least it keeps me sleeping better). The best solution, if not the quickest, must be the overall cover which John suggested and am still waiting for mine to be finished, 4 months late now and counting! (photos to follow when fitted).
Scott – the joint on my cabin sides and roof have been epoxy taped and are now starting to open up, more salt water spraying duties ahead – be warned. #61514; To drain the trapped water by the cabin front legs, Tireur has a semicircular hole which seems to work well(let me know if you want pics). The rear side legs were unfortunately not equally well designed and often found damp and prone to algae.
To change the subject slightly, I have found using rock salt (£7 per 20kg bag) on the teak decks has completely kept the algae away over the winter months without any scrubbing or mechanical removal. The teak does not seem to have suffered either. I also plan to try some tongue oil to replenish the teak in the uncertain hope it may do it some good!?
Thanks again to you all.
Per/Tireur
(Considering she is in the water 12 months of the year and has been for at least the last seven years, the Awlgrip has perhaps lasted as well as can be expected. I hate to think of the cost of having it redone and the time she needs to dry out.)
Apart from these cracks being unsightly, which I can live with, the problem is to keep out the fresh water from entering. I hope my regular spraying of clean salt water will stop any trapped fresh water from rotting the wood where there has been ingress (at least it keeps me sleeping better). The best solution, if not the quickest, must be the overall cover which John suggested and am still waiting for mine to be finished, 4 months late now and counting! (photos to follow when fitted).
Scott – the joint on my cabin sides and roof have been epoxy taped and are now starting to open up, more salt water spraying duties ahead – be warned. #61514; To drain the trapped water by the cabin front legs, Tireur has a semicircular hole which seems to work well(let me know if you want pics). The rear side legs were unfortunately not equally well designed and often found damp and prone to algae.
To change the subject slightly, I have found using rock salt (£7 per 20kg bag) on the teak decks has completely kept the algae away over the winter months without any scrubbing or mechanical removal. The teak does not seem to have suffered either. I also plan to try some tongue oil to replenish the teak in the uncertain hope it may do it some good!?
Thanks again to you all.
Per/Tireur