What is a 25?

[Huntsman60]

and what should it be?

First thoughts are the children's song "I'm a little teapot short and stout" - for motorbike riders think the Fairey equivalent of a Suzuki GSX 600... but if you prefer less flowery descriptions then beamy would spring to mind, Comfy, with full headroom throughout the cabin, noisy and, sadly, slow. It was always asking a lot of a pair of old 80hp Dorsets to get the boat going, no wonder my father said that he could have ***** rowed to Cowes quicker.

Work has started to address the problem, the Dorsets will come out and new engines will drop in (hopefully) with the intention being that RoNey (Rosina of Netley) will be a busy boat next year. She'll very much be a working boat, I'm expecting to be at sailing events all along the south coast. hence the need to 'dump the Dorsets'. Other tasks are new screens, a chart plotter plumbed in (coming back from Portland in the dark was interesting but these days, why stress?) and a few other improvements.

But after a few months of playing, I love it and cannot wait to be back out to play, no longer the stumpy, chubby thing that could never keep up!!

[Folly Reach]

Sounds like a plan.
Two things spring to mind. What engines are you thinking of?
Will she take the power? I only ask as she may well have been designed around the lower power engines.
The early 31's were less strongly built than the later boats. I recall the engine bearers were not as long.
Maybe compare what you have with a 28.
Good luck.

[Huntsman60]

Folly Reach,

Because we've 'lost' that extra 3ft of hull, space is at a premium on the boat! This could only ever be a 4-pot solution, there is simply not the room for a longer 6 cylinder block. The boat should be fine as the original intention was for better engines - only for the project to get binned and the Dorsets stuck in. We'll know a lot more once we've got the old lumps out, at that point a detailed plan can me made but none of the solutions are easy. Again, because of the shorter hull, the shafts have a steep angle so the current engibe set up has the blocks tilted by 17' - which will be well over 20' when planing. This then needs new gearboxes to take the angle out.....

In the end, this all works out fine for me as I'm not fussed about top end performance, with the passages I've got in the schedule comfortable (and hopefully economical) cruising is more important!

D

[Folly Reach]

Talk to Ben Curtis. He is a font of knowledge on 28's.
4 cylinder Cummins would be good or Yanmars although they are higher revving. Gearbox would resolve that though..

[davidbuttriss]

Weren’t 31’s built according to intended use I.e. standard and racing hills? Wight Huntsman was built as a racing hull, 2 extra hull laminates and longitudinals extending into the saloon rather than the standard build where the longitudinals finished at the cabin bulkhead.

[Ben]

Talk to Ben Curtis. He is a font of knowledge on 28's.

I'm no expert, just an amateur observer.

Rosina is different to a H28 in the sense that I think the engines are further apart, I've seen a pic showing engine boxes with a walkway through the middle.

That 17 degree install is steep!

Ultimately the new engine solution is all about budget.

Weren’t 31’s built according to intended use I.e. standard and racing hills? Wight Huntsman was built as a racing hull, 2 extra hull laminates and longitudinals extending into the saloon rather than the standard build where the longitudinals finished at the cabin bulkhead.

I think that's about right, even though only 32 boats built, there's quite a lot of evolution you can see, unlike the Huntress and the 28, there's not really any such thing as a 'normal' 31.

[Huntsman60]

Ben,

Took a couple more pictures today, tomorrow will be too late as these will be out by then!
You were right in your earlier comment regarding the spacing of the engines athwartship. As you can see the two mounts are well out towards the chine, which has both good and bad aspects. The good - well, with the props mounted further from the centreline, you get very good slow speed control. Set against this, the engines are higher in the hull, further reducing the options for replacement power plant.

Hopefully I'll get another couple of pictures tomorrow when we can really start to see how we can get something else into the spaces!

D

[Ben]

It is nice that you have a flat floor between them to walk through.

That is a steep install angle. I understand the issue is that if the aft big end dips into the oil in the sump it makes the oil froth and hence lubrication suffers.

What is that crazy rudder!?!

[Folly Reach]

A couple of Ford Mermaid 4Cyl 140s or the more powerful 200hp version would be good. The problem with the 200hp was they did tend to go bang. I think they were known as (Grenades) due to their ability to explode.

[Huntsman60]

Folly Reach - that was indeed Plan A - I had a pair of 140hp Mermaids lined up that would have gone in, that way I could have kept the reconn'd BWs. Better still, they were happy to be installed at that angle!
BUT... they simply wouldn't fit in the space available (in 2 out of the three dimensions) so that was Plan a sunk before starting!

D

[Folly Reach]

Yanmar 4 Cylinders?
Cummins 4 BT (probably too wide)
Not going to be easy..

[Ben]

Sorry not to have managed to chat at the AGM, too many people to chat to at dinner!

If 4 pot Dorsets are coming out I'm surprised 4 pot Dovers won't go in, I'm a big fan of the Dover in both 4 pot and 6 pot...but...even the newest Dover is now getting on for 20 years old.

Same for Cummins 4bt 150hp, would be smashing but impossible to find a pair (I did find a pair of 80hp NA engines, but parts missing and not running and its a bit of a mare getting them right), I suspect they never get taken out cos they never die, in any event are now getting on in years.

As far as I know the 4pot Perkins 1004 Phaser was never marinised in turbo form, shame as they would be fab.

Yanmar and Nanni I know nothing about.

Plenty of folk not keen on electronic engines in a boat, but I think those days are gone, new stuff now has a lot to commend itself.

I think if it was me I would definitely be looking for a downangle solution.

Trouble is, as far as I know, there is not a gearbox that is

1. Downangle (which although a good thing, also is somewhat drop centre, so the back of the engine comes up)
2. 1:1 ratio
3. Can run handed props

So one of those has to be sacrificed. That's how I see it.

[Ben]

Except!!!

The Velvetdrive Liberty Series 4000 which is available downangle, can output for a handed pair of props and can be had in 1:1.

But is 50kgs. I've only ever seen one and no idea if you can buy a new pair or what the (frightening) cost might be.

https://velvetdrive.com/files/5000.pdf

[Huntsman60]

Work is progressing well, despite finding a few 'swinging sixties' horror stories that will cause a fair deal of extra work. Probably the worst of these is in the fuel supply, which had 'mods on the modifications' and worse - a fuel pipe outlet from the tank - in the lower corner of the tank, held in place with a now rusty jubilee clip. No taps, so no way of closing it off, a leak there - which could have happened at any time - and the whole lot would have drained down into the bilges!

The engine electrics were a jumble of wire of various vintages, that has all gone, and the main starter feeds from the batteries will have to be replaced as they are current less than 20mm. Add in the need for new exhaust systems - who ever has this boat after me will have a cracking set up.

The power plant is now confirmed as Nanni N140s running through down angle reduction boxes and with bigger props!
I'm hopeful of being back afloat early in the new year, late Jan would be good, when I'm on the boat tomorrow I'll take some more pictures.

D

[Folly Reach]

I'm getting the idea of the 140s
I think I would be trying to go down the route of 1:1 on the transmission though.
1:1 has been tried and trusted across Huntress 23, Huntsman 28 and Huntsman 31.
Maybe I'm missing something...