Varnishing

A Holm · Post by **A Holm** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:22 pm

I am about to strip off all the varnish on Trident and apply fresh coats.
I don't know the best method (for best method read one that requires the minimum work and the max quality) of stripping the varnish off.
Equally I'm not sure of the most appropriate varnish system to use (for most appropriate read good finish and lasts a long time).
Currenly I am using a famous brand of Dutch varnish which begins with E and which I can't spell.

Can anyone help?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:49 pm

Andrew,

On Playtime I used blakes 'woodseal' clear woodsealer onto bare wood, it has an antifungal additive which helps prevent those ugly black spots sometime seen under varnish, then I used 5 coats of neat Epiwotsit, one per day for 5 days, no sanding in between, it helps to sit the tin in warm water before you start so its thinner and easy to brush about. Its survived the last year really well, the only bits that need redoing are where the warps have rubbed through, the rest is a good as when I did it.

Ben

A Holm · Post by **A Holm** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:47 pm

Ben,
Many thanks for your reply. I like your blakes 'woodseal' idea and will follow your method.
How did you strip you varnish off?

Andrew

tonyhh · Post by **tonyhh** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:36 pm

Andrew,
Can recommend using a 'Tack Rag' before each coat. Available from B&Q for 90p - these remove all the microscopic bits of dust YOU CAN'T see before applying any paint.
Very satisfying result! Open it out like a handkerchief, fluff it up into a loose ball and then gently dust the surface. It's re-usable but keep in re-sealable bag after use.
A brilliant invention and (you'll like this)should be even cheaper from car paint suppliers! there's my Scottish ancestory coming out again
Tony

Paul Foulston · Post by **Paul Foulston** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:54 am

Andrew,
For varnish stripping I use 'Nitromors' or B&Q own brand. When the varnish is soft and bubbly I start with a 'Skarsten' scraper, they do one with a handle over 18 inches long, I can really cover the ground with mine, however you can really cause some graunch nasty marks with it if you are careless. I finish off with a dumb scraper.
Get yourself an old saw, cut a piece of blade I use a piece about 4X4. Use an angle grinder to rough it out.
File the edges nice and straight and finish off with an oil stone so edges are perfect. To use a surface for scraping take the side of a chisel (not the cutting edge) and with your dumb scraper in a vice pull the edge of the chisel along the side of your scraper. If you do the job right you turn a tiny wired edge to your dumb scraper. You now have a finishing scraper which brings off lovely fine slivers of timber without scratching.
When it goes blunt run the chisel along the edge again. Souds a pain to make but actually takes no more than half an hour to make and you only ever need to do it once.
Like Ben I now use a sealer, I have only ever tried International UCP, assume the Blakes does exactly the same job. Experimented with my deck king planks which are mahogany. The foward one was the traditional way with wash coats 10% varnish 90% turpentine, then 40/60,80/20, using a 3M scourer between coats with the last wash coat 90% varnish 10% turpentine. Followed up with three or four coats of varnish.
Then I was introduced to UCP, one coat, rub down with 3M scourer bosh on three of four coats of varnish flat with the 3M scourer in between and bingo wood looks like a new conker. And it outlasts the wash coat method by years and takes a tenth of the time.

Good luck Paul

tonyhh · Post by **tonyhh** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:45 pm

Continuing this important subject a bit further, one comes on to the subject of the BRUSH.
The painters at Faireys were renowned along the south coast for producing mirror gloss finishes with their brushes. Some of the brushes they used, I am told, the average person wouldn't touch with a bargepole but these were highly prized possessions. The brushes would start their life by being 'run in' painting the bilges of the many boats where the bristles, after some considerable time would be worn down to a fine edge. Only then would they be used for gloss painting and varnishing.
The paint would be thinned down with white spirit and a small amount of raw linseed oil added and mixed to extend the 'wet edge'. Painting on a warm day would require the painter to be quick so that he didn't 'lose the wet edge'. Nowadays a product called 'Owatrol' can be used instead of raw linseed oil and is very effective.
Water was always sprayed on the floor around the boat to stop the dust rising and finding its way onto the wet paint.
A few years ago I was presented with a rather (to me) ropey looking 1" angled brush for painting around the edges of windows. This brush, I was told, had been bedded in over the years and would give me a fantastic finish. The donor was absolutely right. It was very satisfying to watch the brush marks just fade away.
One last tip and one that concerns most people who paint. When you've finished you then have the lovely job of cleaning the brush! Anyone going to the States is well advised to go to any Home Depot and spend $20 on a 'paint brush and paint roller spinner'. This incredibly simple little tool makes cleaning a paint sodden brush a piece of cake. You also use a fraction of the white spirit. You just need an old bucket handy into which one spins the paint brush. You need never throw those paint brushes away any more with this gadget. The one I have is made by Shur-Line, NY.
I hope some of these tips might come in useful
Tony

tonyhh · Post by **tonyhh** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:37 pm

Andrew,
A good friend with years of experience recommends that you do not use Nitromors or any paint remover for several reasons...
Firstly, if doing the toe/gunwhale rail, then unless you cover the whole hull in tough sheeting, there is a chance some of the paint remover may just come in contact with the painted hull ...and you know what that means!
Secondly if using a paint stripper, then the wood needs to be thoroughly washed down to get rid of any of the stripper. This means the wood will get damp and can take up to 2 weeks to thoroughly dry out!
He recommends that you use a B&D hot air gun with attachments. May take a bit longer but the main advantage is that the wood will remain dry. It will also help any damp wood to dry out quicker.
1st coat of varnish best done 50/50
2nd coat 75% varnish to 25% thinners
3rd coat full gloss, wait 2 days then a light rub down with a damp 3m scouring pad, using a tack rag between coats.
Tony

Malcolm Robins · Post by **Malcolm Robins** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:51 pm

When our world was young, I bought a pretty clinker-built sailing dinghy by Wrights of Ipswich. Same Time, we were solemnly presented with a tool that might have been wafted under Gallileo's nose "as though t'were to be used upon him". It was the Earth Mother of All Scrapers such as would last for ever. It wore out years ago ....

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:46 pm

There is a very good sponge-rubber, use-once brush called a jenny brush in various widths which produces a very good finish- about 60p each although much cheaper if bought in bulk from the maker (search under jenny brush on the internet).
This is not for the purist, of course, but for the good-hearted amateur, superb- and there's no cleaning of brushes!

mark rhodes · Post by **mark rhodes** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:36 am

Hello all, one or two points Ivan and I gleaned over years of painting and varnishing gay huntsman, hot air gun very good for removal, not too sharp a scraper though, it gouges, we shied away from two pack after trying it, if it got scratched which inevtably it does it was more awkward to repair and water could get under it and lift it, good old fashioned stuff seemed best. Regarding owetrol, really magic stuff, keeps a much longer wetted edge, makes paint flow better and doesn,t seem to affect the gloss or longevity, never tried with varnish though. Jenny brushed are brilliant, don,t go for the cheap imitations though they are too floppy, I used them after brushing and cross brushing with a good quality well run in brush to lay off, the finish is excellent, easier for the amateur, one other thing I do is after rubbing down the last coat of gloss is to put a little thinner in the last coat of paint, gives a finer finish, looking forward to seeing you all on the water in the warmer wheather.

A Holm · Post by **A Holm** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:49 am

Many thanks to all who replied. I've started the job and have nearly finished stripping off all the paint. I used only a sharp scraper and will finish this phase by next weekend.

I'll probably seal the wood with a wood sealer as Ben recommended, then start varnishing with plain varnish. I don't know if I can find one of old HH's varnish brushes (maybe this should read HH's old varnish brushes-but there again!!); but if anyone knows where I could get one, let me know.

Andrew

tonyhh · Post by **tonyhh** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:05 pm

For the purist or enthusiastic amateur for the great finish..
Try using a Hamiltons NAMEL VAR brush if you can get hold of one. Quite expensive for a brush but lovely to use and well worth looking after
Tony

JohnSK · Post by **JohnSK** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:27 pm

If you want to both keep and care for your brushes with best effect and minimum effort, invest in a "Painter's Mate". This is a metal box wih a close fitting lid and brush racks. It contains a bottle of unpleasant solvent which keeps the brushes soft and ready to use for ever. All you need are brushes for each colour or varnsh and you can use them at leisure, straight from the tin without worrying about cleaning or shedding dry flakes of varnish

Scott Pett · Post by **Scott Pett** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:54 pm

A plastic version of the Painter's Mate was spotted in Homebase the other day, for only a few quid.

It holds two brushes in the lid and will hold white spirit or brush restorer or whatever in the bottom. It also has what is described as a brush comb in the middle which you probably won't bother with after you've seen it for the first time.

I hope the sovlent doesn't melt the plastic pot!

Mark lewis · Post by **Mark lewis** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:21 am

I tend not to use sandpaper, but wet or dry paper. using progressively finer paper (up to 1000 grade) and a garden sprayer with water in it. By careful sanding and around 6 coats of Epiphanes, the finish is stunning and only needs to be cut back yearly before applying another top coat.
Mark Lewis (former surveyor)